Kitchen Render

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Neets
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Kitchen Render

Post by Neets » Fri May 04, 2018 4:35 am

Hey guys,

Thought I'd introduce myself and post my first (test) render using Twilight. There's obviously still a little noise in this render but it still provides a good idea of the design. Render time: 2 hours. I have to say, I'm impressed with the overall quality of the realism :) My only gripe has been establishing a good overall environment setting. I settled for Sky Colour over Physical Sky because of the blue tones, which still proved difficult to correct in PP.

I have a few questions.

1. What's the difference between Physical Sky and Sky Colour? I'm assuming it takes longer to render scenes using Physical Sky? I actually prefer Sky Colour because it seems to provide a more even (less blue) tone.

2. I've been reading a lot of the manuals and tips from the forum, and I'm still struggling to get Image Based Lighting to work successfully. Unfortunately, when I add a HDRI and choose Spherical Sky the background image is too large and blurred. The same happens when I choose Sky Probe. This image was one I purchased and works fine in Maxwell Render (admittedly I have to reduce the scale in Maxwell Render), other than fiddling with the camera settings, is there any other way to fix this issue with the HDRI? If there isn't, can you recommend any HDRI's that are known to work as background images in Twilight with no scaling issues (particularly for interior renders like the kitchen attached). For this kitchen render I ended up adding the background in PS, but there are times when it's better/easier to render the entire image with the background already in place (especially if you'd like to ensure that the reflections on the glass are seen).

3. If the 'Background' settings don't contribute any light to the scene, what is their purpose? Is it possible to activate Sky Colour and use one of these background settings to include a garden image, for example?

4. How would you have added the background in this kitchen render? Which of the three options (use an HDRI, add the background in PS or use a plane in SketchUp), would you have preferred I used and why?

5. If I choose a Template Material and then edit it, and select the picker to double check which setting I chose initially, I'm unable to tell. For example, the white Tolix stools were a plastic Template Material, but when I went back to check the settings, I couldn't tell if I chose Satin or Shiny initially, all I could see was 'Plastic:Custom'. How can I find out which sub-setting I chose initially? This is especially important for metal materials, because there are so many sub-categories.

I'm asking these questions because I'm currently trialling Twilight render before I decide whether to include it in my new online courses, where I'll be teaching 3D rendering. So it's super important that I understand the basics because I'll potentially be teaching these to a lot of people. Appreciate any help that the support team can offer!

Thanks,
Anita

Image
Professional 3D Visualiser with a background in Interior Design. Founder of a SketchUp online learning platform for Interior Design professionals and students www.sketchuphub.com

posodrac
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Re: Kitchen Render

Post by posodrac » Fri May 04, 2018 11:10 am

:welcome: :rspkt:
I'm sure Team Twilight will be preparing something to introduce you in response, better then me.
The image looks a bit hazy, some switch on down light wouldn't harm the cene.
Led light have low power consumption. ;)

Neets
Posts: 10
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Re: Kitchen Render

Post by Neets » Fri May 04, 2018 11:56 am

Hi!

Thanks for taking time to provide me with feedback. I agree, the space could do with more vibrant lighting. I’m not sure if that should be via better environment lighting or a few emitters. I’ll do more testing!
Professional 3D Visualiser with a background in Interior Design. Founder of a SketchUp online learning platform for Interior Design professionals and students www.sketchuphub.com

posodrac
Posts: 316
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OS: i5 7th 16Gb W10
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Location: Portugal

Re: Kitchen Render

Post by posodrac » Fri May 04, 2018 2:07 pm

Don't get me wrong, it's a real good render. It almost fooled me into a real thing, if it weren't for the parallel view. I know that's a "must" in overall design presentations but I don't like it. But you are right about wide angles. Notice the PP glow with glass, even the curved cord of the pendant lights bulbs... all good details, a floor outside the door is missing unless there's some steps (I'm a detail freak) :ugeek: .
Do you know about IES files for lighting ? Is the best way to light a "room", you should try.

Neets
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 8:49 pm
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Re: Kitchen Render

Post by Neets » Fri May 04, 2018 3:33 pm

Hi,

Sorry, I like straight verticals 😕 I think it makes the overall image look better.

Yes, as a professional 3D Visualiser I know about IES files but I prefer to have only naturally illuminated renders (they also add to render time due to the noise), but as I previously mentioned, this is my first test render. I’m still familiarising myself with the software. I might consider a few hidden emitters.

Thanks for your feedback!
Professional 3D Visualiser with a background in Interior Design. Founder of a SketchUp online learning platform for Interior Design professionals and students www.sketchuphub.com

Mike1158
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Re: Kitchen Render

Post by Mike1158 » Fri May 04, 2018 5:23 pm

No tips but it is nice to see you here, missed your renders/presence over at Sketchucation.

Neets
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Re: Kitchen Render

Post by Neets » Fri May 04, 2018 6:21 pm

Hi Mike!

Thanks for remembering me! How are you? Good, I hope!

Anita
Professional 3D Visualiser with a background in Interior Design. Founder of a SketchUp online learning platform for Interior Design professionals and students www.sketchuphub.com

Fletch
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Re: Kitchen Render

Post by Fletch » Fri May 04, 2018 9:10 pm

Thought I'd introduce myself and post my first (test) render using Twilight.
:welcome:
There's obviously still a little noise in this render but it still provides a good idea of the design. Render time: 2 hours. I have to say, I'm impressed with the overall quality of the realism :)
great start, previous experience shows.
My only gripe has been establishing a good overall environment setting. I settled for Sky Colour over Physical Sky because of the blue tones, which still proved difficult to correct in PP.
1. What's the difference between Physical Sky and Sky Colour? I'm assuming it takes longer to render scenes using Physical Sky? I actually prefer Sky Colour because it seems to provide a more even (less blue) tone.
"Colour" type skies are there for artistic freedom. They do not contribute light to your scene (aka global illumination). They will not show up in reflections.
"Sky" type skies are part of the global illumination system.
Yes, naturally "Colour" will be an even colour. The Physical Sky is a complete system that changes with the time of day, location, and hazy settings in your SketchUp location and time settings and the Twilight Environment Dialog.
Why not use "Sky color" instead? This will contribute color to the scene, so choose wisely, start by exerimentation on a simple cube scene, or empty mock-up room like the kitchen but low poly.
2. I've been reading a lot of the manuals and tips from the forum, and I'm still struggling to get Image Based Lighting to work successfully. Unfortunately, when I add a HDRI and choose Spherical Sky the background image is too large and blurred.
Each HDRi is different, so it's difficult to say, I can say that there's been several long discussions about this topic here, as on all forums for 3D I imagine. Search it here on our forum.

One way to think of HDR images would be, if your HDRi is 4000px wide and 2000px high, how much of that image are you seeing out the window of that kitchen? Maybe 1% of the whole image is actually visible? How many pixels is that? Not very many. Now, what is the resolution of your rendering? Are these few pixels needing to be "blown up" to fill the windows? So perhaps in that case the HDRi is not helping you. HDRi are not really designed to be a background photo, but rather to be the main global illumination mechanism for y our rendering. Hence, they're not really great for interior renderings. Can they be used? Sure. Are they ideal? No really. Certainly there are more calculation-effecient methods for lighting your kitchen interior. A high res HDRi can fill your RAM quickly. They are a great tool, but not always the right tool for the job.
The same happens when I choose Sky Probe.
A Sky Probe is a specific format for HDRi images. Read here.
Essentially, you can recognize a sky probe file because the preview looks like a sphere, while HDRI are not.
This image was one I purchased and works fine in Maxwell Render (admittedly I have to reduce the scale in Maxwell Render), other than fiddling with the camera settings, is there any other way to fix this issue with the HDRI?

I'm not familiar with how Maxwell can "scale" an HDRI. This is not possible in Twilight.
An HDRI is a photograph taken by a camera in a specific place and therefore all the objects in the image are in a fixed distance from the camera. There's nothing Twilight can do to change that. The image resolution is either high, or it's not, Twilight can smooth the image, but that's about it. If you need higher quality backgrounds, I suggest using a high res. spherical sky .jpg image. There are a few perfect Treeline Spherical Skies available in the Red Carpet Section for Pro Users of Twilight. A thorough search of the web will also help you locate many good spherical skies, they are not technically HDRI, but they will contribute light to the scene. If your spherical sky is contributing too much color to the overall lighting of the scene, then desaturate the image by 12% or up to 30% and it will still generally look good in the rendering without tinting the rendering. Desaturating the image needs to happen in a photo editor.
If there isn't, can you recommend any HDRI's that are known to work as background images in Twilight with no scaling issues (particularly for interior renders like the kitchen attached). For this kitchen render I ended up adding the background in PS, but there are times when it's better/easier to render the entire image with the background already in place (especially if you'd like to ensure that the reflections on the glass are seen).
In this case, I would use a png "billboard" of some nice trees, also there are some here on the forum if you search, or on the web with a good search. I have developed my own over the years. I created some curved treeline billboards for this exact case like your kitchen.
3. If the 'Background' settings don't contribute any light to the scene, what is their purpose? Is it possible to activate Sky Colour and use one of these background settings to include a garden image, for example?
You can only use one Sky type in Twilight Render, so I would not recommend "sky colour" at all, but rather physical sky, choose a better time of day, disable the sun in the environment dialog, and set up some good 3D trees or a good png treelline billboard outside of the window. But I usually just use a treeline spherical sky... 8000x4000 would be high quality. 4000x2000 sufficient in most cases.
4. How would you have added the background in this kitchen render? Which of the three options (use an HDRI, add the background in PS or use a plane in SketchUp), would you have preferred I used and why?
see above
5. If I choose a Template Material and then edit it, and select the picker to double check which setting I chose initially, I'm unable to tell. For example, the white Tolix stools were a plastic Template Material, but when I went back to check the settings, I couldn't tell if I chose Satin or Shiny initially, all I could see was 'Plastic:Custom'. How can I find out which sub-setting I chose initially? This is especially important for metal materials, because there are so many sub-categories.
Right, once you change the settings the initial template starting point is lost.
I'm asking these questions because I'm currently trialling Twilight render before I decide whether to include it in my new online courses, where I'll be teaching 3D rendering. So it's super important that I understand the basics because I'll potentially be teaching these to a lot of people. Appreciate any help that the support team can offer!
Best of luck with your efforts, please let us know how we may be of further assistance.

Keep in mind that indirect lighting takes a lot longer to converge to solution, so render times will increase greatly.
In that case, you will want to use Sky Portals, they will help greatly (using physical sky or sky color, not background color). Please watch our video tutorial on Sky Portals... link is in my signature.

Neets
Posts: 10
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Re: Kitchen Render

Post by Neets » Sat May 05, 2018 6:14 pm

Hi Fletch,

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I think there's a little bit of confusion! The kitchen render wasn't illuminated using Background Colour, it was illuminated using Sky Colour, which was why I asked what the difference was between Physical Sky and Sky Colour. To clarify: I did not use Background Colour.

Can you provide a screenshot of an example of a Treeline Spherical Sky?

Thanks,
Anita
Professional 3D Visualiser with a background in Interior Design. Founder of a SketchUp online learning platform for Interior Design professionals and students www.sketchuphub.com

Mike1158
Posts: 1751
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:15 pm
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SketchUp: V19

Re: Kitchen Render

Post by Mike1158 » Sun May 06, 2018 10:07 am

Neets wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 6:21 pm Hi Mike!

Thanks for remembering me! How are you? Good, I hope!

Anita
Could not forget you, you breezed in and showed us some stunning rendered images, and vanished. Much respect Anita it's great to see you here. :D

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