Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

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jxmoss
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Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by jxmoss » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Experimenting with liquid interacting with a solid model. I enjoy Fallout 3, so I decided to replicate the Combat Knife from that game and threw it into a puddle.

Let me know your thoughts or anything I could change around to make this more realistic.

:v: or :^:

I will say that, I am on the Hobby version of Twilight Render, so I can not do as much as people with the pro version. I should have swooped the Pro version when they put it on sale but...I'm a failure, so that's how that goes. haha
Attachments
Combat_Knife_Puddle_Water_Small.jpg
Combat_Knife_Puddle_Water_Small.jpg (483.02 KiB) Viewed 325 times

RTD Laboratories
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by RTD Laboratories » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 am

What stands out right away is the water, in something as small-scale as a puddle it should be completely transparent (unless it's really dirty water) and not blue, it should also not have ripples in the way yours has. It makes it look like the puddle is a lake and the knife is some island in the middle of it :)

I would simply change the material for the puddle by importing the water material from Tools -> Import Library -> Translucent -> Water NK (UN) (just remember you won't be able to edit that material).
Andrew F

Fletch
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by Fletch » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:02 pm

Try these water templates.
Attachments
Water.jpg
Water.jpg (112.9 KiB) Viewed 311 times

Mike1158
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by Mike1158 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:24 pm

On a realism basis, the knife is to flat in the model. Puddles cannot be on flat ground because they could not form, the water would run off. A tilted knife will give you a better depiction. A dirt map on the knife would help too. Rust possibly.
Attachments
seamless_ground_textu.jpg
Ground texture.
seamless_ground_textu.jpg (839.25 KiB) Viewed 255 times
Last edited by Mike1158 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

SpookyChick
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by SpookyChick » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:20 pm

jxmoss; What stands out right away to my eye is the texture size of your ground / dirt texture. It's set to too small a size. perhaps scale it up a bit so it looks like a few small green plants on mostly dirt, rather than a slightly patchy google sketchup grass texture.

Also, the height of the dirt areas around the puddle are too tall. they should only come up a little above the surface of the puddle.

I echo RTD's advice regarding the color of the water, and the need to not use a bump map for it. If the water is going to be opaqe, it needs to be a translucent brown, or slightly greenish brown. If I can get some time, I'll do up an example render.

Ja ne!

Shinseiko

SpookyChick
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by SpookyChick » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:49 pm

Here's the example render. Settings below.

On a separate note; Is there anyway to increase the allowable file size for uploads? Every single file I try to post seems to be disallowed because it's over 1.1MB in size, (which is actually rather small these days), forcing me to save as jpg and even then sometimes have to reduce the quality, which makes uploading a nicely rendered image kind of pointless. It's not like I'm asking to upload a bunch of 10 MB, 6000 px posters.... :mrgreen:
Forgotten Knife .jpg
Forgotten Knife .jpg (524.57 KiB) Viewed 246 times
The ground texture is from Texture Haven, FreePBR, or CC0textures, I don't remember which off the top of my head, set to flat. Water is just plain color at an RGB of 89, 82, 49, then set to murky water with the following TWR settings
Water Mat.JPG
Water Mat.JPG (45.96 KiB) Viewed 246 times
and no bump map, and no texture. It does a lovely job of reflecting the spherical environment, which helps tie the image together and make it more realistic

I made sure to keep the model of the ground for the mud puddle simple with the ground not sticking up more than a few centimeters above the water, and the puddle not being more than a few centimeters deep.

THe knife is actually tilted so that the poin, quillon and edge of the pommel all lie on the flat horizontal plane. THis makes it look like it's been dropped, as opposed to floating in the puddle.

I made and used my own brushed metal scratch map and bump map on the blade, quillon, and pommel of the knife. Also for the metal parts I used M04 grey for the blade and like M07 grey for the pommel and quillon, stainless steel for the blade and regular steel for the pommel and quillon.
Knife Mats.JPG
Knife Mats.JPG (163.94 KiB) Viewed 245 times
THe hilt is textured with a tactile paving texture from (I think) CC0textures set as plastic but with the IOR from the rubberball SubSurfaceScatter settings, and the color adjusted to something approximating Odoriferous Green (aka Olive Drab green) The texture comes with a dirtmap already built in. I also used a bump map, set to bump size of two, as you can see.

Lastly, I used the crystal Falls HDRI at 8k resolution from HDRIHaven as the spherical sky, with of course the sun turned off.

Rendered on easy 09 for 150 passes.

I hope this helps!

Ja ne!

jxmoss
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by jxmoss » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Thank you, everyone, for the advice! SpookyChick, that is a great work flow! I will give the project a revisit on this render and try a different landscape around the knife to give a perspective of size. This could add more of a story around it other than just the static image.
SpookyChick wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:49 pm
Here's the example render. Settings below.

On a separate note; Is there anyway to increase the allowable file size for uploads? Every single file I try to post seems to be disallowed because it's over 1.1MB in size, (which is actually rather small these days), forcing me to save as jpg and even then sometimes have to reduce the quality, which makes uploading a nicely rendered image kind of pointless. It's not like I'm asking to upload a bunch of 10 MB, 6000 px posters.... :mrgreen:
Forgotten Knife .jpg
The ground texture is from Texture Haven, FreePBR, or CC0textures, I don't remember which off the top of my head, set to flat. Water is just plain color at an RGB of 89, 82, 49, then set to murky water with the following TWR settings
Water Mat.JPG
and no bump map, and no texture. It does a lovely job of reflecting the spherical environment, which helps tie the image together and make it more realistic

I made sure to keep the model of the ground for the mud puddle simple with the ground not sticking up more than a few centimeters above the water, and the puddle not being more than a few centimeters deep.

THe knife is actually tilted so that the poin, quillon and edge of the pommel all lie on the flat horizontal plane. THis makes it look like it's been dropped, as opposed to floating in the puddle.

I made and used my own brushed metal scratch map and bump map on the blade, quillon, and pommel of the knife. Also for the metal parts I used M04 grey for the blade and like M07 grey for the pommel and quillon, stainless steel for the blade and regular steel for the pommel and quillon.
Knife Mats.JPG
THe hilt is textured with a tactile paving texture from (I think) CC0textures set as plastic but with the IOR from the rubberball SubSurfaceScatter settings, and the color adjusted to something approximating Odoriferous Green (aka Olive Drab green) The texture comes with a dirtmap already built in. I also used a bump map, set to bump size of two, as you can see.

Lastly, I used the crystal Falls HDRI at 8k resolution from HDRIHaven as the spherical sky, with of course the sun turned off.

Rendered on easy 09 for 150 passes.

I hope this helps!

Ja ne!

tuna57
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by tuna57 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:14 pm

A little late to the party as usual :roll: . Got a little sidetracked......

Agree with everyones comments so far. Threw together a little scene as an example.......
Created a small ground form with SU's Sandbox Tools. Water is a grouped plane that was intersected with the ground.
Got the knife from the 3D Warehouse. Used the Skatter plugin to sprinkle a little grass about.

Set up the scene and rendered on Easy 9 , 15 passes , 2000 px x 1310 px . Used an HDRI sky for Lighting. Didn't spend a ton of time setting up the materials. Did use the "Murky Water" template as suggested by Fletch and SpookyChick. A quick example that didn't turn out to bad.... some minor adjustments to the materials and lighting and it would be darn good.
Attachments
knife in puddle_Scene 5.jpg
knife in puddle_Scene 5.jpg (623.7 KiB) Viewed 213 times
knife in puddle_mono.jpg
knife in puddle_mono.jpg (957.74 KiB) Viewed 213 times

Fletch
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by Fletch » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:24 pm

SpookyChick wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:49 pm
On a separate note; Is there anyway to increase the allowable file size for uploads?
Thank you for asking, SpookyChick, we have increased the limit per your suggestion. It is now 10Mb. :^: :hat:

SpookyChick
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Re: Combat Knife - Puddle/Water Layering Experiement

Post by SpookyChick » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:27 pm

Domo Arigato, gozaimasu, Fletch-sensei! It is much appreciated. :hat:

@Tuna: Nice work! I probably should have included a screenshot of the mesh I used, like you did. So you found that Bowie knife in the warehouse. Did it require much cleanup? I ask because I stopped using anything from the warehouse after running into one two many badly done models.

@jxmoss: I hope these two examples and workflows will help.

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