Mountain Lake Cabin Redux

[thexcadguy]

Updates to a previously posted "Mountain Lake Cabin"

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[Walt]

Very nice

[pbacot]

Great renders. The granite looks very nice. Did you do all the background in 3d (trees, rocks and lake)?

[thexcadguy]

Thanks.
AS crazy as it is yes I did actually populate the model with all 3D entourage. The only post-pro is level adjustments (though the exterior is still too dark!) and lens flare type brushes at the can lights. The boulders are from the warehouse (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/collec ... 41b2e3465e), the trees are from Sketchucation and the water is a procedural from the red-carpet section (Sea Water). I think the model is hitting the 200+ mb mark so its a bit bloated!

[Fletch]

to improve these renderings greatly it would only take learning some info about tone-mapping.
best is to take some example photos from design websites of real existing spaces which are similar, and then adjust the tonemapping of your image to match your example images you like. If you do this on the same monitor, the results should be quite satisfactory.

tonemapping is basically exposure adjustment, but you your case here, it may also require isolating certain areas of the image an lightening or heightening contrast only for those areas (such as the windows/view outside).

[thexcadguy]

Thanks for the suggestions Fletch (and for all the time you and Chris et al spend here helping people) - Question: When you use the term "tone mapping" (in the context of this model and/or using Twilight) are you really only referring to Gamma/Exposure or much more than that? (i.e. contrast, temperature, etc). Ive read through some of the tutorials/videos/old posts/etc and the "impression" I get is the term is used (fairly) exclusively for gamma/exposure (though admittedly maybe I just haven't read enough! I try not to be one of those people who want the answer now without doing any background reading first but Ive much to learn in terms of post pro processing). I typically do play with gamma and exposure before final saving of image and then work in Photoshop and adjust "levels" if necessary etc. Levels seems easy to understand compared to some other settings e.g. curves, color balance. Typically I increase gamma/exposure for indoor shots and decrease for outdoor shots before saving image.
When you mention changing only selected (isolated) areas are you suggesting creating a selection set of certain areas and adjusting within post pro or creating two renders and merging them (i.e. I know in arch indoor photography sometimes two shots are taken - one with exposure set for indoors and one with exposure set for outdoors and the two images are merged)

When you look at these images what is your immediate reaction in terms of tone mapping? and what specifically would you try and change? (i.e. too little gamma, too little exposure, etc?) In an older post of mine you recommended changing the temperature of pic as well - I know (relatively) what temperature is but I'm not sure how one develops a keen eye for these things. Is there a book or website that really dives into these things (in terms of arch rendering) I have a Lynda account but its all geared for standard photography so I struggle with the application of all the various post pro adjustments to an arch rendering.

Again thanks for all the help and apologies if this clearly explained elsewhere!

[Fletch]

Thanks for the suggestions Fletch (and for all the time you and Chris et al spend here helping people)

- Question: When you use the term "tone mapping" (in the context of this model and/or using Twilight) are you really only referring to Gamma/Exposure or much more than that? (i.e. contrast, temperature, etc).

usually I'm referring to the "much more than that"

two definitions I found on a quick search are a bit contradictory - but both give you a good idea.

Tone Mapping is the process of converting the tonal values of an image from a high range to a lower one. For instance, an HDR image with a dynamic range of 100,000:1 will be converted into an image with tonal values ranging from just 1 to 255.

Tone mapping is a technique used in image processing and computer graphics to map one set of colors to another to approximate the appearance of high dynamic range images in a medium that has a more limited dynamic range. Print-outs, CRT or LCD monitors, and projectors all have a limited dynamic range that is inadequate to reproduce the full range of light intensities present in natural scenes.

Ive read through some of the tutorials/videos/old posts/etc and the "impression" I get is the term is used (fairly) exclusively for gamma/exposure (though admittedly maybe I just haven't read enough!

this will get you 80% there - so gamma/exposure has the most "bang for the buck"
check out the Linear Tone Map settings on this image for example:

I try not to be one of those people who want the answer now without doing any background reading first but Ive much to learn in terms of post pro processing). I typically do play with gamma and exposure before final saving of image and then work in Photoshop and adjust "levels" if necessary etc. Levels seems easy to understand compared to some other settings e.g. curves, color balance. Typically I increase gamma/exposure for indoor shots and decrease for outdoor shots before saving image.

before you attempt any more editing of any images, be sure you Calibrate your Monitor

When you mention changing only selected (isolated) areas are you suggesting creating a selection set of certain areas and adjusting within post pro

exactly.

creating two renders and merging them (i.e. I know in arch indoor photography sometimes two shots are taken - one with exposure set for indoors and one with exposure set for outdoors and the two images are merged)

you can save the image as HDR if you have Twilight Render Pro, or you can also save several different exposures of your image and merge them in Photoshop or other similar photo editor. I suggest saving as HDR - be sure NOT to use any tonemapping or post-pro if saving as HDR - then tonemap it in a photo editor for HDR images.

When you look at these images what is your immediate reaction in terms of tone mapping?

there is not enough contrast, the images are dull and lifeless a little and the outside is not exposed correctly compared to inside. There is no way the background outside would be as dark as shown in your image if the photo were taken from inside the building.
Interior Renderings - Exposure for Background Outside

and what specifically would you try and change? (i.e. too little gamma, too little exposure, etc?) In an older post of mine you recommended changing the temperature of pic as well - I know (relatively) what temperature is but I'm not sure how one develops a keen eye for these things.
Most important is a good monitor properly calibrated - I use dual monitors - one is a calibrated IPS monitor, the other is default laptop - and it's shocking the massive difference the monitor can make in some cases. Some images it seems to matter very little - but for most, the color cast of the laptop monitor/display and the brightness and lack of blacks in it are just a major factor in the look of the image.

Is there a book or website that really dives into these things (in terms of arch rendering) I have a Lynda account but its all geared for standard photography so I struggle with the application of all the various post pro adjustments to an arch rendering.
arch rendering interiors is similar to architectural photography of interiors - so most lighting and post-pro tips will apply.

Again thanks for all the help and apologies if this clearly explained elsewhere!

no problem at all - cheers

[Fletch]

here's one way to tone map it

[thexcadguy]

Last question(s)!

- Did you select the exterior opening and edit separately or did you just change the whole image?
- On my monitor I notice a greenish hue/tint on the bottom left corner? Did you play with the color range or something?

And yes it def looks much better. I think in general my renders are too dark - Im always worried about looking over-exposed - and I was probably trying/worrying too much about keeping the cloudy blue sky beyond (even though I realize in real-life it wouldn't really show like that with a bright sun being viewed from indoors)

[pbacot]

Nice dialog. I would opine that something is still non-sunny about the sky and background in Fletch's version. Looking great in any case.

A sailboat like that would be a handful on such a small lake...