Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

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niX1990
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by niX1990 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:41 pm

Hello,

I am rather new to Twilight Render and want to achieve a certain effect for a staircase railing.

The railing shoul consist of several vertical glass plates which are lit up with LEDs from below.

There are 2 variations that I want to achieve.
1. One should look like this. http://www.lightingstyles.co.uk/Uploade ... 281%29.jpg
The important thing is that the glass body is milky/frosted and should carry the light for a few inches before it fades away completely.

2. The other effect should look like this. http://www.fif-moebel.de/files/products ... nahmen.jpg
This time the glass body is clear and doesnt carry the light but the light can be seen at the sides of the glass plate.

I have tested several different lights from light emitter to Spot light etc. and several materials (frosted, clear, from kkt library etc.) but couldnt
get it to look right.

Until now I had the best results with a strong spot light. Unfortunately the spotlight is so strong that it also lit up the ceiling. Normal LEDs shouldnt do this.
Also I had some weird light circles all over the room.
I was hoping that somebody got some experience with glass and light and could make some suggestions for materials etc.

Many thanks in advance
niX.

Fletch
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Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by Fletch » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:36 pm

I'll take a shot, but do you have a test model, please?

niX1990
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by niX1990 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:27 am

Hello Fletch,

thank you. The model I am working with is rather large. Therefore I just made a quick model for the
stairs + glass railing and some walls to see unwanted light effects.
I didnt include any lights for now.

The idea is to place LED strips beneath the glass plates to illuminate them.

Best regards
niX.
Attachments
Test_Glass_LED.skp
(156.8 KiB) Downloaded 471 times

Fletch
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Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by Fletch » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:36 pm

Here's a shelf scene I created for you.

Please download and examine closely how it's built and how the materials are applied.
Most important is that I've put an emitter plane along all edges of the glass shelf, and deleted the bottom of the glass shelf. I've applied only architectural glass no shadow template material to the glass shelf so that it does not refract too much.
Finally, the back face of the shelf that contains an emitter material I have reversed the normal of that face so that it shines under/into the glass shelf, but it's mostly just to get the "look".

note that if you want to just build the glass wall with light shining into the edge, you can do this, but you must be careful with the modeling, do not intersect the light geometry with the glass geometry and you must use a glass material with dispersion. SEE the Resource Section for Licensed Users:

for frosted glass, you must use a glass with SSS, this can also work and be done in Twilight, but will take a very long time to render, as I suggest rendering with Easy 10. However, Easy 09 will also work.
Attachments
LED-Glass-shelf-Easy09.skp
(1.08 MiB) Downloaded 532 times
LED-Glass-shelf-Easy09.jpg
LED-Glass-shelf-Easy09.jpg (40.48 KiB) Viewed 10086 times

niX1990
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by niX1990 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:45 pm

Thank you very much. It looks great.

I got the clear version down pretty quick.
For the frosted version however I had to take a very close look at your model.
Even though I thought I did everything excactly like you did (I even copied the materials) there was something different
and my glass was just dark/the emitter didnt work properly.
I think I didnt apply the material to every single face. But after rebuilding the glass plate step by step and rendering it after every single step the frosted
version works now too.

I have attached a very quick render to get the idea.
There is much more testing to be done now but I know that I am on the right track.

Just wanted to say thank you. You have been a great help for me.

Best regards
niX.
Glass-railing.jpg
Glass-railing.jpg (301.5 KiB) Viewed 10081 times

Fletch
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Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by Fletch » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:17 pm

Here are a set of glasses with dispersion, be sure to render with Easy 09 or 10 for best results with these, or any material using SSS.
Subject: Glass with Green Edge like a Table Glass Top

the example you show above is looking very promising. :^: which material are you using for the frosted glass? don't forget a separate emitter mat. on the edges.
be sure if you use any dispersion or sss material that the model is "water tight" not open on one side like my example with the missing bottom piece. my example uses architectural (aka thin) glass, so it does not need to be water tight.

niX1990
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by niX1990 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:24 pm

Ok let me ask you one more question please.

I tried to recreate the glass pane again in another model because I thought I knew how to do it.
Apparently I do not know how to do it. It doesnt matter what I do...the pane stays dark.
Glass-LED.jpg
Glass-LED.jpg (294.31 KiB) Viewed 10076 times
The picture shows a pane from another model on the left compared to the pane I did from scratch on the right.
I did exactly the same things I did while creating the pane that is illuminated properly. I copied the materials.

I draw a rectangle and extrude it. Then I copy the SSS material from the good pane and color every face of the new pane from the inside and also from
the outside. Then I copy the light emitter material from the good pane and apply it only from the inside to the bottom edge of the new pane.

The result looks like this.
Glass-LED2.jpg
Glass-LED2.jpg (11.16 KiB) Viewed 10076 times
Its the exact same thing and the same faces have the same material applied to them. Still it doesnt render properly.

Can you tell me what I am doing wrong? As far as I know I did everything exactly like you did it in the model you created.

Best regards
niX.

Fletch
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Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by Fletch » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:38 am

The normal (the face of a 3D surface that the 3D program considers as the "positive" or "front" face must face the direction where you want the light to shine.
Since you didn't post the model, I can say for sure... My guess is that this face is reversed.
Why not just use the model you have that's working and copy that?

You should look/try out at some other materials available here:
Matte Lampshade Material Library (39 colors)
Glass Lampshade Material Library (37 colors)

Fletch
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Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by Fletch » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:12 am

Here's a version where I created the glass block as actually 1mm thick walls on 5 sides and applied the emitter up inside the hollow shell from below, from the bottom face. See the scene.

This uses then the Twilight_MatteLampshade Material Library linked above, and applies the "Frosted_MatteLampshade" to all faces of the 1mm thick "glass" shell.

It will take a while to render, but looks best with Easy09 or 10.

Remember testing goes faster when rendering smaller resolutions with least number of lights. Test with one panel, then when it looks right, unhide all the other panels.
Turn off the sun. I set the background to be "Sky Color" and a dark grey for a low ambient lighting.
Attachments
Test_Glass_LED_TWLsupport.skp
(54.21 KiB) Downloaded 481 times
LED-Glass-Frosted-Railing-Easy09.jpg
LED-Glass-Frosted-Railing-Easy09.jpg (22.25 KiB) Viewed 10070 times

Fletch
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Re: Need help. Glass plate with LEDs

Post by Fletch » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:46 am

It looks even better with the Template > Realistic Glass > Plexiglass, and it acts like glass with the reflections at the different angles, etc.
But it must be applied to the 1mm shell model as I attached in the last post.

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