About all the render engines out there

[bravoddb]

Hi, well this may sound so strange to you guys, but I would like to hear your opinnion, I'm an Architect 18 years of experience, I started with SketchUp a year ago, and I fell in love with it, and with all the features it can have.

For 18 years, I have been doing my work, projects, in some other software, and the main activity was project and construct what I designed; but now, I think I'm becoming a frelance (not really), but here where I live, most of the architects don't make this kind of work, so some of them are calling me to make this kind of work for they.

My question is: Which render engine (unbiased) is faster?
I recently read that some unbiased rendering engine it was going to be very fast, so I downloaded the demo, and I found that TW was a little faster, or much faster.
So which one is faster then?

I own: (in order I bought them)
IRender NXT
Piranesi
Twilight
Vue 8
Podium

I love them all, I found where and when to use each one of them.
I really like all of them, I'm crazy I know, but who doesn't become crazy, with all these beauties (all SketchUp's Add ons)
I was thinking on buy, for sure Thea Render, and maybe Vray, but if VRay consumes the same time amount as TW or Thea, I wouldn't.
But there are some others like Indigo, FryRender, Maxwell Render.

Wich one do you guys recomend?
Thanks

[Frederik]

Hi, well this may sound so strange to you guys, but I would like to hear your opinnion...

The question is indeed a little odd, since you've posted it at the Twilight Render forum...
I mean... I'm sure you don't expect us to comment much on competing applications - or...??

My question is: Which render engine (unbiased) is faster?

Actually this question is more or less impossible to answer...
Reason being that it all depends on the individual scene, the materials used, the light set-up etc... etc...
It can differ much from one project to the other...

I own: (in order I bought them)
IRender NXT
Piranesi
Twilight
Vue 8
Podium

First of all I'd say that Piranesi isn't a Photo Realistic render application - on the contrary...
Piranesi is a NPR (Non Photo Realistic) render application, which will enable you to make NPR renders such as water color style etc... With Piranesi, you're also able to add 2D entourages such as trees, plants, scrub, people and alike...

In your initial question you're asking for "Which render engine (unbiased) is faster?"
To my knowledge IRender NXT and Vue isn't unbiased render applications...

Although the render engine running Podium is Kerkythea (Same as Twilight Render), there are limitations to the KT SDK running Podium and one of these are that the unbiased part is not available with Podium...

Vue is well known for creating, animating and rendering natural 3D environments...

I was thinking on buy, for sure Thea Render, and maybe Vray, but if VRay consumes the same time amount as TW or Thea, I wouldn't.

The person behind Thea Render is also the person who created Kerkythea - and thereby also the Twilight Render...

However, it's important to notice that the Thea Render differs much from Kerkythea...

But there are some others like Indigo, FryRender, Maxwell Render.

Wich one do you guys recomend?
Thanks

I hope you will understand that I won't be able to recommend/judge one above the other...

Like I said initially... This is the Twilight Render forum and you're asking for us to judge and comment on competing applications...

What I can say is, that it all depends on your need at specific projects...
In some projects, one application will suit better than in another project...

I recommend that you take a look at the February issue of 3D World Magazine, where you can find the How to choose rendering software article...
Part 1, Part 2 (in this you can find Kerkythea mentioned...), Part 3 and Part 4...

I've attached a pdf-document of the article...

Hope this can guide you to what you're searching for...!?

[Gaieus]

Hi Kim,

As he asked about "unbiased" renderers, you could be "unbiased" and tell everything frankly.


(Sorry for the terrible pun - if it is a pun at all).

[Equis]

Although the render engine running Podium is Kerkythea (Same as Twilight Render)...

That's funny. When I was shopping around for a SketchUp renderer, I chose Twilight over Podium because I liked the results in the galleries better.

[Fletch]

I believe the only engine that is easy to use with SketchUp, and combines multiple biased and unbiased methods is Twilight.

I chose Twilight over Podium because I liked the results in the galleries better.

Was it such a difficult decision, Equis?
Twilight has far more abilities/features/flexibility/freedom for the artist, and is half the price.

With 4-5 rendering solutions, I can not imagine that one would have the ability to learn to use any of them to their full potential. Each is only a tool in the hand of an artist, they will not perform miracles for you. I have seen terrible renderings done with all the packages mentioned above. I've seen amazing renderings done with Viz scanline... depends on the artist.

I used Vue 5 Infinite for several months before I dared to post a review of it on Vizdepot. I used it for a year before looking elsewhere. I have not used Vue 6 or 7 and wouldn't dare to comment on them. Well, I DID use Vue 6 Infinite, but only to test the new ecosytem editing features, and I found it was not as powerful/useful as I had hoped. Kerkythea's instancing brush was much more flexible and powerful for my purposes... but still lacked a couple nice features that Vue had, such as being able to randomly color the leaves on the trees for instance. But otherwise, with Kerkythea (free), I have easy access to finite control over every instance and adding a second system of instances onto the same mesh is simple. I can then control each system completely independently. Vue's system was different.

Anyway... my point is that each program has its place depending on the person's needs. I would use Vue if I require animated water, people, vegetation or sky...nothing can beat it for those features. I have made 2 animations with Vue, and can talk about it as an "advanced" user. I do not believe Vue has any UNbiased render methods... in fact it would go against the principle, since Vue is designed to be an animation engine... not for stills (of course you can render still, but it's designed for animations!).

Twilight can render animations, but is limited by SketchUp's animation. Vue is not a plugin for SketchUp. You hit render with Twilight from withing SketchUp... tweaking lighting and model with Twilight is a piece of cake.

I had a lot of trouble with the scale of objects in Vue. Some of the vegetation would be way too big or way too small, and it became very frustrating as an architect working with it.

As Frederik mentioned, if you want to try out other engines, they are all available for free trial (I think)... so go for it!

[Equis]

I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but...

I unsuccessfully tried quite a few times to get SketchUp models to render in Blender (my lack of Blender skill), so I was looking for something that worked well with SketchUp. I've known about Podium for many years, but have never really thought the results were what I wanted. It was something about the lighting that made it look like they used fill lights all over the scene (instead of actual light fixtures) a la 3DStudio from many years ago.

I'm a big fan of open source, so of course I came across Kerkythea. When I saw Twilight, I happily paid for the convenience of having it all happen inside SketchUp. I don't need all the character animation and particle effects of Blender et al and the budget was just right for my small company!

I already have two projects behind me and hopefully many more to come.

[Frederik]

I'm a big fan of open source, so of course I came across Kerkythea.

Just to be clear and avoid any misunderstandings...
Kerkythea is not open source...

Although KT is offered free of charge, it's owned by the person who created it (Ioannis Pantazopoulos - or Giannis) - and he is now coding the new Thea Render...

It's no secret that the render engine running under hood of Twilight Render is Kerkythea...

Podium have - up until now - also used the KT SDK as the render engine, which the people behind Podium have licensed from Giannis, just like we have...
However, Podium will change the engine (in ver. 2 and onwards) to another render engine (it's not the Thea Render...!!)...

It's also worth mentioning that apart from using the same render engine, there's no connection between Podium and Twilight Render...
I've nothing bad to say about Podium and you can argue that we're somehow related as "cousins", but please note that it's two separate companies and two separate developers and thereby two competitors...

[Equis]

Kerkythea is not open source...

Oops, I apologize. That was my mistake. I misunderstood the About page at Kerkythea.net where Ioannis says...

...I want to believe that KT can now be considered among the top freeware/open source renderer engines...